tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post5646251765539633149..comments2023-06-09T21:14:27.204+01:00Comments on J7: 7/7 Inquests Blog: Behind the Scenes of the Aldgate Explosion, at 11 minutes to 9The Antagonisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01459201402366077472noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-4132187141776434672010-11-05T10:31:15.225+00:002010-11-05T10:31:15.225+00:00NK: "I suggest to J7 that four-and-a-half mi...NK: <i>"I suggest to J7 that four-and-a-half minutes to get from King’s Cross to Aldgate is rather silly"</i><br /><br />204 left KX at 8.35 (adjusted to 8.38 by Hugo Keith) by anyone's math apart from NK's this is 11-and-a-half minutes before the time of 08.46.30.Bridgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220942517267393608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-52946188631261347102010-11-05T09:57:36.201+00:002010-11-05T09:57:36.201+00:00From Nick Kollerstrom's site:
However else one...From Nick Kollerstrom's <a href="http://terroronthetube.co.uk/latest-77-articles-3/magic-numbers-and-sychronous-detonations-rule-out-suicide-bombers-yet-again/" rel="nofollow">site</a>:<br />However else one may wish to disagree with the authorities about 7/7 – the times of the explosions recorded by mechanical equipment is something the authorities have got right. It is surely simpler to accept that the clock in question was a minute or so out – rather than follow J7’s harebrained new view (<b>contradicting their own Timeline</b>) of a blast-time which no authorities have ever accepted – and which destroys the general consensus of three-bomb synchrony.<br /><br />I suggest to J7 that four-and-a-half minutes to get from King’s Cross to Aldgate is rather silly – and recommend they delete this whole section of their commentary before they suffer a major implosion of their credibility.<br /><br /><b>Or, if J7 do wish to make such a claim, I suggest they should first adjust the Timeline on their site that I gave them, which has averred for five years that the first bomb went off at 8.49.</b><br /><br />From the <a href="http://julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-timeline.html" rel="nofollow"><b>J7</b></a> timeline:<br /><br /><b>8:46am</b> First report of a "huge bang" at Aldgate East and passengers fleeing from Liverpool Street Station [Source: Evening Standard]<br />8.48am The Westbound Piccadilly Line train No. 311 leaves King's Cross.<br />8.49am The first report of a major incident at Liverpool Street station was received by the London ambulance service at 0849, within a minute of the blast. [BMJ Diary of Major Incident (PDF)]<br /><br />I await his equally absurd claim that we hurriedly changed it to make him look silly.Kierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12236507389155398693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-41866500936470031862010-11-01T22:38:10.797+00:002010-11-01T22:38:10.797+00:00Rory that would be a bit of a leap - the issue of ...Rory that would be a bit of a leap - the issue of explosives will be dealt with at the Inquests around Jan/Feb 2011.<br /><br />J7 submission on these issues can be read and downloaded here:<br /><br />Provisional List of Factual Issues 7 - 10:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/J7-Inquest-Submission/index.html" rel="nofollow">J7: The July 7th Truth Campaign - J7 Submissions to the 7 July Inquests</a>Bridgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220942517267393608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-49747066511630865872010-11-01T22:09:55.176+00:002010-11-01T22:09:55.176+00:00Thank you all for your incredibly detailed and con...Thank you all for your incredibly detailed and conscientious analysis - I wish I had more time to follow what is going on, but it is heartening to know that so much scrutiny of the inquest proceedings is occurring.<br /><br />Your analysis shows that facts are being fitted to "interests" - as galling as this is, it is 'normal' behaviour for powerful people. However, it seems you have ample evidence here that explosions occurred before the train was bombed. So the question is now, what would be the purposes of explosions in advance of the train itself being bombed? Do you have any insights from this evidence into the purposes that would be served by explosions *in advance* of the train itself being attacked?<br /><br />Best wishes<br />RoryRory Ridley-Duffhttp://www.roryridleyduff.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-55580184091118450302010-10-26T14:38:37.841+01:002010-10-26T14:38:37.841+01:00Giving testimony today, the driver of train 447 wh...Giving testimony today, the driver of train 447 which can be seen in the Trackernet image at platform 2 at Aldgate:<br /><br />18 "I then got on to <b>train 447, which again is<br />19 a Metropolitan Line train which was running on time. As<br />20 I pulled away,</b> I heard an extremely loud bang. At this<br />21 point, I was about half a car length out of the station.<br />22 I immediately stopped and, at the same time, the<br />23 Underground electrical traction current turned off and<br />24 the lights in the tunnel turned on.<br /><br />M447 was due at Liverpool St 08:48:30. Even more proof that Mr Keith is wrong in his insistence on the 08.49 timing.Bridgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220942517267393608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-20827431934955470552010-10-26T07:54:46.069+01:002010-10-26T07:54:46.069+01:00I hope Mr Keith is being paid well by his masters....I hope Mr Keith is being paid well by his masters.<br /><br />This is a travesty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-43967060890673730622010-10-24T02:43:41.575+01:002010-10-24T02:43:41.575+01:00I am posting here because blogspot actually works ...I am posting here because blogspot actually works while the rest of the Web is slow to non-existent. Anyone else?<br /><br />Mr Keith has to do a large number of things to put the time of the Aldgate explosion at just before 0949. He has to take the time of the power trips as the time of the explosion, he has to make most of the trains in the area about 2.5 minutes late, he has make the Liverpool Street CCTV timestamp one hour and three minutes slow (instead of 1 hour due to its being GMT not BST) and he has to suppress the the Trackernet data for Aldgate.<br /><br />The timestamps of various inter-agency calls have to be corrected in the same direction as well.<br /><br />There ought to be a law against it.<br /><br />NumeralAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-52332185999606023522010-10-23T22:12:45.919+01:002010-10-23T22:12:45.919+01:00It's Kafkaesque. Beyond belief. I'm aghast...It's Kafkaesque. Beyond belief. I'm aghast.<br /><br />When I was a kid, I was poor, very poor. I had a treasured, new green pencil. I loved that pencil. To identify it as mine, I put two dent marks in it. Nobody would have noticed them but me.<br /><br />A rich kid stole that pencil from me. I saw it and asked for it back. He said "it's mine". I said "it's mine, and my one has two nick marks on it, show me"<br /><br />He turned away from me and after a few seconds of struggle, turned around and said "mine has three". A new nick mark had been added with his back turned to me.<br /><br />The pain I felt then, knowing that a rich, overprivileged swine had got away, brazenly, hideously, shamelessly with my property is what I feel when I read this QCs disgusting bullshit.sifrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-18541322730274948342010-10-23T21:36:07.870+01:002010-10-23T21:36:07.870+01:00The section posted by Kier above is worth repeatin...The section posted by Kier above is worth repeating, simply because it's so completely incredible, counter-factual and counter to any sense of reason anyone might have.<br /><br />There were six bits of evidence from the day of 7 July 2005 adduced with regard to timing:<br /><br />1. "A call timed at <b>08.47.06</b>"<br />2. "A call... at <b>08.47.38</b><br />3. "<b>08.47</b> the reference there to the call to British Transport Police about the loud bang on the platform"<br />4. "At <b>08.48.40</b>, there's a reference to the tunnel telephone trip."<br />5. "<b>08.48.42</b>, the outer rail tripping,"<br />6. "and then, at <b>08.48.43</b>, the track alive indications being extinguished."<br /><br />So, we have six timings, all taken from operational logs, and all of which are before the official "<a href="http://77inquests.blogspot.com/2010/10/7-july-inquests-its-conspiracy-stupid.html" rel="nofollow">narrative</a>" time of <b>08.49</b>. <br /><br />But no matter, because of all of these timings are completely ignored in favour of that tried and tested trick of fitting the facts to the policy.<br /><br /><i>[Hugo Keith QC] "All those obviously postdate -- they are subsequent to the explosion which, as I said, occurred at 08.49.00, but they precede the explosion on this time line, my Lady, because those are the times given in the contemporaneous documentation, but they must obviously be wrong."</i><br /><br />If all those times "must obviously be wrong", then on what evidence is the time of 08.49 (which, conversely "must obviously be right") based?The Antagonisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01459201402366077472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-52472973960766062672010-10-23T12:12:00.226+01:002010-10-23T12:12:00.226+01:00continued
08 July 2005
Investigators found fragm...continued<br /><br /><i>08 July 2005<br /><br /><b>Investigators found fragments of timing devices that may have been used in the three train blasts, but no such fragments have been found in the bus explosion, U.S. law enforcement sources told CNN.</b><br /><br />"The cause of the bus explosion right now is problematic. We don't know yet what we're dealing with as the cause there," one law enforcement official told CNN.<br /><br />However, police commissioner Blair said investigators have found no evidence of timing devices "because we haven't reached that point in the investigation."<br /><br /><a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/islamkristen@yahoogroups.com/msg10752.html" rel="nofollow">CNN</a></i><br /><br />They also tried to heavily argue that Hussain was buying a battery to repair his bomb.<br /><br />The Official Account doesn't give a definite answer on timing devices:<br /><br /><i>11 May 2006<br /><br /><b><i>There is no evidence at the bomb sites of remote detonation</i>, nor of any material at the bomb factory which would suggest that they intended to construct remote detonators. The fact that Hussain seems to have bought a battery that morning may provide further indication that they were using self-detonating devices.</b><br /><br /><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20060615050422/www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/7-july-report.pdf?view=Binary" rel="nofollow">Report of the Official Account of the Bombings in London on 7th July 2005</a></i><br /><br /><i>09 July 2005<br /><br />The police say the Tube explosions took place at 8.50am - and the synchronisation could suggest bombs used in the attack were triggered by timing devices.<br /><br />High explosives were used in the attacks and were not home-made, say the police.<br /><br /><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4666591.stm" rel="nofollow">BBC</a></i><br /><br /><i>21 July 2005<br /><br /><b>Police sources have told the BBC they have not recovered any timing devices from the bomb scenes</b>, possibly indicating that detonation was by hand<br /><br /><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676861.stm" rel="nofollow">BBC</a></i>amirrortotheenemyhttp://z13.invisionfree.com/julyseventh/index.phpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-76799883662060872362010-10-23T12:10:01.631+01:002010-10-23T12:10:01.631+01:00re: 08:49
Probably stretching for an answer, but ...re: 08:49<br /><br />Probably stretching for an answer, but perhaps evidence will be introduced to suggest that there was a mechanical or electronic timing device attached to the bombs - with an argument attached to the introduction of such evidence saying that these were timings devices. Any synchronisation would then leave the timings of the explosions less then a minute outside of each other. But it could be that the devices actually allowed for remote detonation. Although numeral was around for the whole, I think, of Clifford Todd's testimony in the Theseus trial, it could be that the 'organic peroxide explosives' angle was sufficient for the purposes of the prosecution and no further detail needed to be entertained. However, the inquest would demand a fuller description. Trying to convince that they were timing devices would be much harder if the timings weren't within a minute of each other.<br /><br /><i>08 July 2005<br /><br /><b>Police also have recovered what they believe are the remnants of timing devices on the subway explosions</b>, leading them to believe they were not suicide bombs but explosives planted in packages or bags and left behind.<br /><br />British police today said that they had recovered two packages that they at first thought were unexploded devices. The packages were exploded purposely by the police to see what they were and turned out not to be unexploded bombs but just packages that had been left behind.<br /><br />The bomb parts and timing mechanisms should provide important evidence that could help determine who was behind the attacks, sources told ABC News.<br /><br />Officials now believe that all the bombs on subway cars were detonated by timing devices. Earlier today, British investigators had believed that the bomb on the bus was the work of a suicide bomber, sources said.<br /><br /><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=918193&page=1" rel="nofollow">ABC News</a></i><br /><br /><i>08 July 2005<br /><br />How the bombs were detonated remained an open question Friday.<br /><br />A U.S. law enforcement official said Thursday that investigators believe some of the bombs were on timers, based on evidence recovered from the rubble. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, would not further describe the evidence, and London police declined to comment on the statement.<br /><br /><a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20050710013230/http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/08/bombings.investigation.ap/index.html" rel="nofollow">CNN</a></i><br /><br /><i>10 July 2005<br /><br />Brian Paddick, deputy assistant commissioner at Scotland Yard, said: "We can clarify that the three bombs on the Underground exploded almost simultaneously.<br /><br />"Clearly there are two possibilities here: either you have people with the explosive devices who synchronised watches or whatever, and they have detonated their devices at the same time, or it could be these devices were triggered by timing devices that were co- ordinated to go off at the same time."<br /><br />Paddick said that the new information "lends more towards timing devices than people, actually with the bombs, manually detonating [them]", but refused to rule out either possibility.<br /><br /><a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20050710/ai_n14720182/" rel="nofollow">Sunday Herald</a></i><br /><br /><i>09 July 2005<br /><br />Police believe the terrorists used timing devices, possibly mobile phone alarm clocks, to set off the bombs. The are not thought to have triggered them remotely by mobile phone calls - like the Madrid bombings - because the signals cannot be picked up on the Tube.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2005/07/09/exclusive-the-hunt-115875-15717499/" rel="nofollow">Mirror</a></i>amirrortotheenemyhttp://z13.invisionfree.com/julyseventh/index.phpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-12427852958998490082010-10-23T09:01:46.900+01:002010-10-23T09:01:46.900+01:00More references to the call logs/time of the explo...More references to the call logs/time of the explosion in the transcripts:<br /><br />11.10.10 PM p31<br />"This document on the screen is a call timed at 08.47.06, but, again, an illustration of the difficulties of the times logged at the time of some of these documents, <b>plainly couldn't have been a call at 08.47 because, for the reasons that I've explained, we know for certain that the first bomb explodes at precisely 08.49.00</b>. This is a call which therefore must have occurred two minutes later, or thereabouts, at 08.47.38:<br />"Police emergency.<br />"Hello, mate. Liverpool Street here. We've had<br />a loud bang on the platform. We've got smoke at the moment in Liverpool Street underground here. We are evacuating."<br /><br />11.10.10 PM p33<br />"The London Ambulance Service log of that call is timed approximately two minutes later so that would seem to support the idea that these logs are two minutes out in terms of their timings, which is consistent with the first call being received, apparently, but wrongly <b>two minutes in advance of the first explosion at Aldgate</b>.<br /><br />11.10.10 PM p53<br />"But we can see at 08.47 the reference there to the call to British Transport Police about the loud bang on the platform, at platforms 1 and 2 on the Metropolitan Line, and that was one of the calls that we saw on the British Transport Police hard copy transcript of landline calls. At 08.48.40, there's a reference to the tunnel telephone trip. 08.48.42, the outer rail tripping, and then, at 08.48.43, the track alive indications beingextinguished. <b>All those obviously postdate -- they are subsequent to the explosion which, as I said, occurred at 08.49.00, but they precede the explosion on this time line, my Lady, because those are the times given in the contemporaneous documentation, but they must obviously be wrong</b>.Kierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12236507389155398693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-91643535303316593932010-10-22T13:18:22.209+01:002010-10-22T13:18:22.209+01:00^ The trip occurred after the damage to the 11-kil...^ The trip occurred after the damage to the 11-kilovolt feeder cable number 642 - how long after we don't know - but certainly <i>before</i> 08.49.Bridgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220942517267393608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-31788085092585298622010-10-22T08:32:19.097+01:002010-10-22T08:32:19.097+01:00The 11-kilovolt feeder cable tripping at 08:48:40 ...The 11-kilovolt feeder cable tripping at 08:48:40 does not necessarily mean that the explosion occurred then. It could have taken time for the damage to the cable to develop into breakdown.Numeralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10524375540498868004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-60082782848158531432010-10-22T01:38:11.632+01:002010-10-22T01:38:11.632+01:00This gives us some idea of why some statements are...This gives us some idea of why some statements are being read and some called. Cherry picking?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/kurtbarling/2010/10/77_quest_for_justice.html" rel="nofollow">BBC - Barling's London: 7/7: Quest for justice</a>Bridgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220942517267393608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-15522979931655781172010-10-21T23:56:21.082+01:002010-10-21T23:56:21.082+01:00It should be noted that the read statements of Mr ...It should be noted that the read statements of Mr John Porter, the London Underground power control room manager, are 'hearsay' evidence, as he is not present in court.<br /><br />The campaign group INQUEST have raised their concerns with the use of 'hearsay'/'Rule 37' evidence in their response paper of July 2010 'Ministry of Justice consultation paper Reform of the Coroner System Next Stage: Preparing for implementation (CP06/10)'<br />(available here:http://preview.tinyurl.com/3xdkqp2 )<br /><br />[quote]=======================<br />PDF page 13<br /><br />#55. We fully endorse the views of the Divisional Court in the Paul11 case that the current<br />Rule 37 needs to be urgently revised. In particular it needs to be clarified whether it<br />extends to both expert and factual documentary evidence and codified with regard to the<br />coroner’s power to admit hearsay evidence in any event.<br /><br />#56. Guidance also needs to be given on what constitutes “a reasonable time” when<br />determining whether or not the maker of a statement can give oral evidence of the<br />contents of his or her statement and the necessity for a witness to provide evidence as to<br />why he or she cannot give evidence in person.<br />[/quote]=======================<br /><br />Why can't Mr John Porter appaer in court to be subject to counsels, other than Hugo Keith's , questioning?Sinclairhttp://77inquests.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-38796336104080041582010-10-21T23:53:04.726+01:002010-10-21T23:53:04.726+01:00As they say in exams, show your working.
Easy eno...<i>As they say in exams, show your working.</i><br /><br />Easy enough. Start at the desired conclusion and work backwards.The Antagonisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01459201402366077472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-39028384118731092352010-10-21T23:51:26.943+01:002010-10-21T23:51:26.943+01:00If you want to know the time, don't ask a poli...If you want to know the time, don't ask a policeman.Numeralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10524375540498868004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-42891215351667794382010-10-21T23:35:57.783+01:002010-10-21T23:35:57.783+01:00Mr Keith's time is not only "Atomic"...Mr Keith's time is not only "Atomic", it is "Absolute".<br /><br />"... we know from the absolute time at which the explosion occurred, which was 08.49.00 ..."<br /><br />"Absolute, true and mathematical time, of itself, and from its own nature flows equably without regard to anything external - Isaac Newton"<br /><br />As they say in exams, show your working.Numeralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10524375540498868004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-66765196758400981372010-10-21T23:17:51.167+01:002010-10-21T23:17:51.167+01:00Perhaps we'll hear from the train driver at so...Perhaps we'll hear from the train driver at some point?Bridgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220942517267393608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-70348260170677822212010-10-21T22:59:40.339+01:002010-10-21T22:59:40.339+01:00This is a difficult business J7 is engaged in. A d...This is a difficult business J7 is engaged in. A discrepancy like this could be dismissed by defenders of the official narrative as being a relatively trivial issue<br /><br />On the other hand, it could be connected to something more significant. The fact that some effort seems to have been expended in fixing what could well be an incorrect time does suggest that there was a practical reason for doing so<br /><br />One to 'park' on the possibility that its significance becomes clearer in the light of future testimony IMHOStefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01467757421113856218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-6658663588347723182010-10-21T22:35:32.491+01:002010-10-21T22:35:32.491+01:00One things for sure, this Inquest is raising more ...One things for sure, this Inquest is raising more questions than it has answered.<br /><br />CCTV missing? Viewing Luton footage before they had identified the 4 accused at KX? Adjusting timings? And we're only 2 weeks in!Bridgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04220942517267393608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-350827144131011460.post-4203155169393640102010-10-21T22:25:30.465+01:002010-10-21T22:25:30.465+01:00...all of which begs the question why would it be ......all of which begs the question why would it be important to anyone to shift the reported time of an explosion by a couple of minutes?<br /><br />Only the people responsible for the shifting would know for sure but are there other elements of the 7/7 State Narrative which are dependent on this timing?Stefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01467757421113856218noreply@blogger.com